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Old November 28th, 2009, 9:17 pm   #1
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Question Fuel Pump No Power Why?

Took my 95 Probe 2.0 engine and trans out and replaced with much lower mileage 2.0 from 94 Probe. My Pobe has cruise control, other donor car did not. I was careful to swap electrical cables, vacuum lines, and throttle body to year older/less milage motor. Engine cranks, but clearly no hum from fuel pump. Fuel pump is not running. Fuse under hood is fine. Any idea where to look first to find the problem?
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Old November 28th, 2009, 10:10 pm   #2
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Have you tried jumping the fuel pump? Im not sure of the 2.0 but in the GT under the hood on the drivers side, there is a diagnostic box. Using a wire or a paper clip you jump the F/P and GND connections and it will make the fuel pump power up, or should.

Your fuel cutout light hasnt come on has it? There is a button in the trunk that acts as an emergency shutdown for the pump in crash conditions, some people get problems with it.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 10:17 pm   #3
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Thanks for reply. Yes, checked the inertia switch. Physically, it looks OK. And, was working fine prior to the engine swap. I'll check the f/p and GND to see if pump activates.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 10:23 pm   #4
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One probelm with the Diagnostic Box, only active pins are B+, FAB, TAB and GND. The F/P does not have any pins/terminal posts in them. Any other way to power up the pump?

Last edited by PaulD; November 28th, 2009 at 10:34 pm.
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Old November 29th, 2009, 9:58 am   #5
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fuel pump relay?
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Old November 30th, 2009, 3:12 am   #6
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Default Lets start at where Judoka left off...

I am assuming that the PCM Power relay is working as you didn't state that the instrument cluster had no lights. So we will start where Judoka was directing you, with the fuel pump relay.

Open the hood, remove the relay/fuse panel cover and locate the fuel pump relay (Relay is typically a green block Located closest to the drivers side strut tower, labeled DENSO NF02) Remove this relay - It will take some wiggling.

Once the relay is out, turn the key to the ON position.

Using a 12 volt test lamp or a voltmeter, connect one lead to chassis ground. Touch the other lead to each of the two rear-most terminals (closest to firewall) of the relay socket in the fuse panel one after the other. Both contacts should either light the test lamp or indicate approximately 12 vdc when the lead touches each of the rear-most contacts.

Next take a short piece of wire or paper clip, and jump the two relay contacts closest to the drivers fender together. This jumper ties 12 volts from the PCM relay to the fuel pump, so you should hear the pump spin up.

If you have 12 volts on both rear-most contacts, and the jumper spins up the pump, replace the relay.

If you have 12 volts on both rear-most contacts, and get no fuel pump with the jumper, you have an inertia switch fault/trip, the fuel pump motor is dead, or there is an open wire in to the fuel pump.

If you don't have 12 volts on both rear-most contacts, you have a bad PCM Power relay, an open or corroded wiring connection in the fuse panel or a bad fuse. Post your initial results and we can get to the next step.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 11:29 pm   #7
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Wink

Sorry to necro an old thread.. but of all the posts I've searched through for an answer, this one seems to have gotten the closest.

Vehicle
1993 Ford Probe GT auto

Background
Went to start the car last week.. it almost started but then died (something it hasn't done before). Tried to start again and it just cranks without a hint of combustion.

Problem
Basically the fuel pump does not turn on with the ignition switch.

I've diagnosed this the last few days and here is what I know...

1) The PCM relay does send power to the Fuel Pump Relay.
2) The Fuel Pump Relay does receive 12v to both positive terminals (the trigger and the main supply)... but the relay does not close the switch! (This made me think the relay was bad.. tried 3 other relays each having the same effect.. so I think the relay isn't the problem.)
3) If I jump around the fuel pump relay at the fuse box, the fuel pump will turn on. (So I know the fuel pump and circuit past the FP relay is OK)
4) If I jump GND to FP in the diagnostic box, the fuel pump relay does turn on and send power to the fuel pump.

Based on this information, I concluded that the PCM was bad... So I replaced the computer but it still doesn't start.

Sooooooo... that's where I'm at now. It seems like I may have either a bad PCM ground, or a bad connection between the fuel pump relay trigger and the PCM.

Thoughts?

Short Version - TLDR

No fuel pump power..
-PCM relay.............OK
-Fuel Pump Relay ....OK
-Inertia Switch........OK
-PCM.....................OK
-Seems to be a problem with the PCM closing the circuit to the Fuel Pump Relay trigger.

Seem like I'm on the right track?
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Old February 7th, 2011, 4:18 am   #8
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Default OK, you have confirmed a few things.

The ECU can turn on the fuel pump via the relay. You know this because you tested with the fuel pump jumper and have replaced the ECU.

Now, the ECU will not turn on the fuel pump until it determines that the crank is turning. The ECU looks for pulses from the crank and cam position sensors. This may be confirmed in some cases - IF you have a manual transmission. Get some help, put the car in first gear, release the parking brake. Then turn the key on. hold in the clutch, and have the helper push the car or drift it down a small slope, then let the clutch out. If it starts, then your crank sensor is not working.

Do you have any check engine codes? How about high voltage while the engine is cranking? You may have a distributor issue. Can you find a loner from the same model year and check it out?
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Old February 8th, 2011, 1:12 am   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdonn View Post
The ECU can turn on the fuel pump via the relay. You know this because you tested with the fuel pump jumper and have replaced the ECU.

Now, the ECU will not turn on the fuel pump until it determines that the crank is turning.
Is this true? According to the service manual, it seems like the fuel pump should turn on for 1-2 seconds when the ignition switch is closed. Then, if the starter circuit is not closed, the PCM will open the switch to the fuel pump relay to keep the car from pressurizing fuel needlessly.. once the starter circuit is closed, the PCM will once again close the fuel pump relay. ... or am I missing something here?

Quote:
The ECU looks for pulses from the crank and cam position sensors. This may be confirmed in some cases - IF you have a manual transmission.
Hmm... have an automatic. Although there is a junkyard nearby that has a '93 probe GT auto which I have been picking parts from.. so I might be able to pick up some crank and cam position sensors.

Quote:
Do you have any check engine codes? How about high voltage while the engine is cranking? You may have a distributor issue. Can you find a loner from the same model year and check it out?
No check engine light or codes stored in the computer.

Voltage seems fine as far as I can tell... are you thinking there may be high voltage on some particular component?

I can try checking the distributor out tomorrow. Might be worth grabbing this from the junkyard while I'm at it.. although, I need to wait for another pair of hands so I can see if I'm getting spark while cranking.. I suspect I am not, based on my observation from the driver seat looking through the windshield at a spark plug wire grounded to the frame (not a very conclusive test, I know!)

..also, if I jumper the fuel pump and then try to start the car, it still does not run. Which seems to indicate it's not just the fuel system keeping the car from running.. or so it seems.

Thanks for the help so far!
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Old February 8th, 2011, 3:54 am   #10
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Default Assumptions are on track so far.

I thought that there was an initial pressurization of the fuel system at key on, but testing has proven this not to be true. As to the crank sensor, there is an in-line harness connector for the crank position sensor up by the filler neck on top front of the engine. Sometimes they get dirt and moisture in the connector or the pins spread adn loose contact. Try opening this connection and cleaning the contacts. Then connect and try to start it.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 9:03 pm   #11
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Ok, I was finally able to work on the car again today.

No...When I turn the key on, the fuel pump does not prime.

Went to the junkyard and got another distributor from a '93 probe gt (of the 4 v6 probes in the junkyard.. this was the last one that still had the distributor.. which makes me wonder)

After swapping in this distributor, the engine will sputter while cranking. This is an improvement, but it still doesn't run.

Also, I noticed that with the old distributor if I disconnected the 6 pin connector while the ignition was on nothing would happen.. but with the new distributor if i disconnect the 6 pin connector the fuel pump DOES turn on and then turn off.

So maybe I fixed one problem with the new distributor, but still have some other problem yet to fix.. maybe a bad coil or something?
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Old February 12th, 2011, 9:41 pm   #12
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Default So the nex t question is...

If you now get fuel pressure, are you getting good spark? You may need to read up on the HEI mod, since that was their last distributor.
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Old February 12th, 2011, 10:59 pm   #13
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Spark hasn't improved with the new distributor.. but the fuel pump is definitely priming once the motor begins cranking now.

Things seem to be pointing toward the ignition system... I think I'll try the HEI mod and see how that works.
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Old February 13th, 2011, 2:12 pm   #14
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And the probe lives once again!

I wired in the GM HEI ignition module and it sputtered back to life. It ran rough for about 30 seconds, but that is probably due to the new computer and excess fuel from cranking and cranking the last few weeks.

BUT ANYWAY.. so glad we were able to figure out what the problem was.

For anyone who stumbles onto this thread, I thought my problem was with the fuel system because the fuel cutout light came on and I wasn't getting fuel pressure while cranking. BUT, it turned out that there was something wrong with the distributor.. in my case, the ignition control module (and perhaps the coil from my old distributor too) was going out and making it impossible to start.

I highly recommend the HEI mod seen here..

http://www.clubprotege.com/wil/howto/hei/index.htm

Thanks for the help mcdonn!
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 3:22 am   #15
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I just had the following problem:

started the car on a cold morning, came back outside after 15 minutes and the car would crank but not start-no fuel cutout light. Tried replacing the fuel pump relay and nothing changed. Before paying 90.00 to replace the inertia switch as well, I decided to try the HEI mod.

Worked like a charm!!!!!!! My car started right up and is running perfectly now!!!!!!

DO THIS MOD!! http://www.clubprotege.com/wil/howto/hei/index.htm

GO TO SLICKDEALS.NET AND SEARCH "ADVANCE AUTO". YOU CAN FIND COUPON CODES TO SAVE TONS OF MONEY ON YOUR ONLINE PURCHASE AND PICK UP IN STORE. 5OFF15, 10OFF30, 15OFF40, 20OFF50 AND SO ON. BEST DEAL NOW IS 35OFF80

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